Talk:Nanochan

nanochanray

We can debate what does or doesn't belong in this article, but it's not appropriate to silently replace the link with a third-party clone site that most of the users of the original site want nothing to do with. Insert (talk) 06:23, 20 March 2023 (CET)

That isn't what it is, though. It's the only remaining instance after a dispute between two rival administrators of the site, of which one has shut his copy down and the other has not. Not "third party" and not a clone either.Wikiist (talk) 16:42, 21 March 2023 (CET)

What the fuck is "rival administrator" supposed to mean? Hikari was never an administrator of any sort on nanochan, he was what was known as a "trial volunteer" with less privileges than a 4chan janny. This is the best theory about who runs nanoray as far as I know, although as far as I know there's no proof and it's based on observing his and the nanoray admin's behavior. But there's certainly no evidence that the nanoray admin was ever an admin at nanochan. If you have any proof of something different, show me. In any case, replacing the site link without any indication it is a clone run by a different person with different principles instead of a voluntary transfer is not acceptable. Insert (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2023 (CET)

And if by "rival administrators" you mean rival administrators of two different websites, one of which had its contents duplicated from the other, then that's exactly what a third-party clone is. Insert (talk) 17:42, 21 March 2023 (CET)

In any case, feel free to explain your "rival administrators" narrative in the page, but don't just silently change the link. Explain what happened in your view, preferably with evidence, and let other users add corroborating or contradicting evidence.Insert (talk) 17:53, 21 March 2023 (CET)

Also if you're going to remove content, provide a reason for removing the content. Insert (talk) 17:56, 21 March 2023 (CET)

It's pretty clear by now that you (Ook) are running the clone site, and that's why you want to change the link to point there. Look, you can't just make a copy of a dead site and declare yourself the arbiter of its history and culture. At best, assuming the community accepted your site as the continuation of the old one (something that doesn't appear to have happened), you would have some influence over the next chapter of the site's history. Insert (talk) 16:15, 23 March 2023 (CET)

First of all, the users of lambdaplusjs are not, and have never been, "most of the users" of nanochan. If you want to falsely claim that they are, provide proof.Oook (talk) 09:02, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

What I said was that "most of the users of the original site want nothing to do with" ray. That much is obvious from the site's activity levels. Insert (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

No it is not. Nanochanray is essentially unadvertised. Most users have no idea it exists. Also, certain lambdaplusjs user(s) persistently try to make people not post there and try to persuade them to stay and post on lambdaplusjs, with pretty limited success. The activity level of lambdaplusjs is relatively low itself. What activity there is on lambdaplusjs is not similar to nanochan. The form of activity that exists on lambdaplusjs was mostly not present on nanochanq and is not present on nanochanray. Again, provide proof or stop making the false claim. Lambdaplusjs users are not "the nanochan community" or representative of it. Oook (talk) 09:25, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

It was advertised on the endchan bunker, on phichannel, and on nanochan when it came back up. Nanochan users came, saw, and left. Insert (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

No, again that's false. Except for the one time the link was dropped on phichannel, everything else is other people sharing the link among themselves. Including the threads on nanochanq. Which by the way none of the moderators saw fit to delete. I wonder(?!) why. Wouldn't you expect mods to delete some random "third-party clone"? Why delete links to lambdaplusjs but not nanochanray. A mystery(!). Oook (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

I only need to quote yourself:

provide proof or stop making the false claim

- Ook, circa 2023

As far as I know, the phichannel db was not released publicly after its death, so anyone can claim anything, especially regarding deleted content. I can claim that for once nanochanray was publicly banned from phichannel and links to lambdaplusjs were left alone! One against one, who is stop us? So please "provide proof or stop making the false claim". Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

It's certainly true that hikari deleted a lot of lambdaplusjs links on nanochan, especially the ones that yuki was using to try to communicate with endofunctor. He was likely a mod on phichannel as well under the username "light" ("hikari" in English), which was the main reason it lost most its users to lambdaplusjs. Monoid seemed well-intentioned, but he didn't have the foresight to build accountability mechanisms into his site, so he had a hard time reviewing what light/hikari was doing. Insert (talk) 04:55, 6 July 2023 (CEST)

Page has caught the attention of Lambdaplusjs

Relevant thread: [1]

If you're here from there, please consider adding some more material to this article or even starting a page about Lambdaplusjs. Insert (talk) 10:50, 22 March 2023 (CET)

I'm not awfully knowledgeable about Nanochan, but I have some info, and the site is actually up and active. So I created the page Lambdaplusjs, consider contributing towards it. Beware, I don't think avatarfaggotry is still worthy of mentioning in detail. There could be links placed to individuals' sites, but I'd contest that based on relevance. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 18:54, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

I don't think it's worthy of mentioning either. And the relationship of lambdaplusjs to nanochan has always been hostile. That site should not be linked. Oook (talk) 10:23, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

More like: The relationship of lambdaplusjs to a certain child porn spammer who weaseled his way into the nanochan moderation team has always been hostile. Insert (talk) 11:27, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

No. BTW there are multiple links to lambdaplusjs gvol deleted and present in old audit.logs. Oook (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

About reverting

I am in consensus with Insert that the changes made are relevant and should not be reverted. So do not revert them, it's 3k lines now. Reverting it over and over again expecting things to change is the definition of lunacy. Have a civil discussion and mention why each line is wrong, and give examples as to how to change them. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 18:06, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

Reasoning and civil discussion aren't things that this guy does. You're going to be at this for a very long time if you continue. Take it from me. Yuki-sama (talk) 17:44, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

I don't think it's fair to assume that Ook has any ties to the nanochan clone, neither do I think that matters. I personally have my biases, you too, everyone does. Our biases influence our actions, but it's reason that restrains them from those going berserk. So I think the edits should be taken at face value, and the face values is that the aforementioned person has repeatedly removed a good portion of the article, and refused to elaborate or discuss. That is vandalism. If he does change his mind and include justification for the removal of the "spinoffs" section, why nanochanray[...].onion is legitimate, etc. We all will consider those arguments at face value and might decide to act upon them to improve the article. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 18:06, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

It wasn't just motive and personality, but also the way he added the othersites.txt link, which didn't exist on nanoray before to my knowledge and seems like a response to the argument here. But I agree it doesn't matter much. Insert (talk) 20:01, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

Oh, and by the way, use 4 tildas (~)*4 at the end of your comments here to sign your posts next time: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Talk_pages Yuki-sama (talk) 17:45, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

Thanks, I was editing for Wikipedia some years ago (horrible power-hungry admins over there btw) and it added that automatically. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 18:06, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

I'm not interested in fighting a revert war with what is possibly a bot, but you do you. Maybe a viable approach is to add new content elsewhere. Insert (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

Fair point, I have more productive things to do as well. But I don't agree with letting it do its thing is fine. There are countermeasures that I'm pursuing. If that doesn't work, maybe just put a straight-up redirect from Nanochan to Lambdaplusjs. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:01, 11 April 2023 (CEST)

This article

Has a lot of problems, most of it seems to be written by someone extremely salty about being banned from Nanochan and/or affiliated with a rival imageboard.

so correct it, thats the point of a wiki sneak (talk) 02:01, 2 July 2023 (CEST)

No kidding it has problems. Oook (talk) 10:25, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Please check the history of the page, the one being salty here is Ook who reverted sourced information dozens of times and refused to talk about it no matter how we tried reaching him. I tried contacting the IGWiki admins, but to no avail. This article serves to tell the truth because the owner of the clone site (nanochanray) has tried everything from suppressing that. From wasting countless hours samefagging and arguing about it on other sites, to straight up spamming CP to the competing sites.

That being said, I am in favor of a cleanup of the information presented. The information is sourced from one guy.

Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 14:13, 2 July 2023 (CEST)

It does not "tell the truth". As you previously said, you don't know much about nanochan since you weren't there. Oook (talk) 10:28, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Excuse me, I was on Nanochan. I don't know where you get that I wasn't, or even the audacity to say that I wasn't. I did not slurp up the metadrama and avatarfaggotry like others, but I was there. Also the edits in this comment is talking about come from User:Insert Insert, but since then the issue is irrelevant as the history section got updated. Ask him next for your vetting process. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:42, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Updated history section with more information from the endchan thread that is already cited. Please let me know if there are any inconsistencies/errors/etc. I hope this helps Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:36, 2 July 2023 (CEST)

There are a lot of errors. Oook (talk) 10:25, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

For example? No shit nobody is going to take your seriously if you fail to provide any rationale or reasoning. I'm all down to more civil discussion, but you aren't making it easy. I used the relevant endchan thread (nc/res/351.html) neither did that thread, or the edit got complained about for being false, expect from you. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:42, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Closing down this discussion and removing the template. The demands have been sufficiently met. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

What demands have been met and how?Oook (talk) 11:20, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

The demands for a cleanup? User:Sneak Sneak wanted to clean the page up, so we did just that. The history section is now filled with actual history rather than your site. We both should be happy for a better article for all of us, but I guess a hammer sees everything as a nail to hit. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 22:42, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

>The current ongoing edit war only serves this *ray dudes ego. We can leave links to both boards, its pretty clear which any potential posters will choose given activity levels.

We tried that in the past, and he wasn't willing to take that compromise. For a time we got him to stop reverting by including no new links, but he would remove anything stating that nanochan had died. Anyway, all that was before people noticed he was no longer deleting child pornography that got posted to his site, only hiding it from the main view (but still publicly accessible for those in the know). I don't think linking to his site would be acceptable unless he actually removes the material. Insert (talk) 02:17, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

I've just checked again. Absolutely disguising. The bottom row of 5 threads were all titled and contained said material. Presumably, scrolling down would only have more. Linking to it is a hazard to not only visitors, but possibly this very site as well. Hikikomori Nakajima Hikari (talk) 11:45, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

Your fake concern is touching, but pointless. 1. The link is in the page's edit history. if it's a risk to anyone or anything, it's right there. 2. Nanochan moderation policy is not going to be influenced by anyone other than the mods themselves. Feedback is not sol;icited or accepted. Like it or run away as fast as you can is the policy. 3. Lambda is liable to be attacked again until it is unusable. 4. The same ads are posted on Lambda and are nothing to do with either site. Fis (talk) 12:18, 3 July 2023 (CEST)

Those spam ads are all deleted. It is a very persistent human posting them, not a bot.Oook (talk) 10:32, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

And it only took you two months to do it. Insert (talk) 10:50, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

No, that's false. They've been continuously deleted, either tvol deletion or gvol, as posted. Oook (talk) 11:00, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Tvol deletion still leaves the posts publicly accessible on your site, which they were for two months despite you being alerted to them. Insert (talk) 11:21, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

By the way, I'm surprised you've left it accessible after removing all the other moderation accountability tools. Having trouble with endofunctor's code or something? Insert (talk) 11:24, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

No, not publicly. Publicly, tvol deleted posts are deleted. Poking around in the site's internals to view deleted posts is something only hostile users do as far as I'm aware. If you can find someone who does that and also wants the site to succeed then point them out as I'm very skeptical that such a person exists. "Moderation accountability" as you call it is not a goal of nanochan, and when it was it was a mistake. It's a euphemism for abusive and entitled behavior that should't be tolerated or encouraged, and misrepresents the situation. Oook (talk) 11:37, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Oook's comments, moved to the talk page

>Nanochan's moderation is to note as it was relatively complex. Instead of giving full access to site controls, people were able to apply to be "volunteers" with a PGP key and a name of their liking. Volunteers then were able to hide posts and moderators acted on them.

Oook: Like many things in this article this is inaccurate. Most mod accounts had no involvement of PGP, neither was there any application.

>In August 2021, a trial volunteer with limited privileges named hikari was added to the moderation team. He became the site's most active moderator, and began disregarding any rules and moderating as he saw fit. Attempts to correct his behavior resulted in disputes and sometimes revert wars and even deletions of messages by moderators to the absent admin. Eventually, endofunctor would disabled the account until he apologised, which he never did.

Oook: That has nothing to do with what happened and moderation policy was unchanged.

>Hikari returned later under the name of flandre, before being removed again.

Oook: ORLY.

>"In September 2022, nanochan's moderation functions ceased working, meaning that the efforts of moderators to preserve the site by deleting old files could not continue."

Oook: WTF? That has nothing to do with what happened.

The above comments were posted by Oook in the article. I've taken the liberty of moving them to the talk page. Insert (talk) 08:42, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

Most of the content of this article as edited by Insert and most of the lambdaplusjs article doesn't belong on this wiki.Oook (talk) 10:49, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

I've addressed the PGP / applications issue by citing the threads which called for "applications" and for applicants to post their PGP keys. Obviously there's some degree of speculation in the hikari/flandre stuff, and it may be fine to remove that anyway since documenting mod drama isn't really what the site's about. Here is endofunctor's comment on hikari the first time he was removed: "I told him not to delete posts in /meta/, and despite that he did that so his account has been locked and he has been signed out. He will be unable to moderate this site anymore." This was related to user messages to endofunctor; the deletion of other volunteers' messages was during the flandre period. Insert (talk) 11:19, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

"Other volunteers'" messages? Whose? Obviously the moderators were not endofunctor fans and did not want him involved with the site anymore, hence why those messages were deleted. Oook (talk) 11:52, 5 July 2023 (CEST)

"documenting mod drama isn't really what the site's about" - no shit. Oook (talk) 12:17, 5 July 2023 (CEST)